Discussion:
[Jamin] CVS commit : 0.98.1
Patrick Shirkey
2013-02-06 03:51:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I just committed some code for multiple outputs. It's almost working but I
missed something as the audio output doesn't work unless global bypass is
enabled.

Should be an easy fix in process.c if someone feels like taking a shot at
it but if not I'll look at it again tomorrow. I'm not seeing it at the
moment. Anyway the ports are all in place now and they are showing up in
jack too.

Proof of concept functionality. Still needs some work on the
compressor+limiter+volume chain for each new channel and the new UI
functionality too. One easy way to deal with it would be to make the
limiter a global control for all the new channels and spin up a few more
limiter plugins on the backend.

Jack, I'm pretty sure I didn't mess up anything in io.c but if you have
the time to give it a once over that would be helpful.



--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Patrick Shirkey
2013-02-06 18:22:39 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I just committed a fix to get some sound out of the new multichannel band
outputs. Still not quite finished as there is a problem with the quality
but getting closer to something useful.




--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Patrick Shirkey
2013-02-06 23:46:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I just committed a fix for the audio quality on the multichannel outputs.
If anyone wants to test this version that would be useful.

This basic functionality might actually be useful for some people now:-)

The output of the low/mid/high bands is sent through the compressor but
not the limiter at this stage. I have to spin up some additional limiter
plugins and add some gui functionality to make the limiters effective. The
simplest method will be to add a radio button to the limiter panel to
allow adjusting the output for each band.

ex.

[all] [low] [mid] [high]

[ limiter controls ]

Depending on which item is selected affects each output channel. Not sure
about the simplest way to handle the multichannel output meters and volume
controls though.



--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Michiel Broek
2013-02-07 15:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Patrick,
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Hi,
I just committed a fix for the audio quality on the multichannel outputs.
If anyone wants to test this version that would be useful.
This basic functionality might actually be useful for some people now:-)
The output of the low/mid/high bands is sent through the compressor but
not the limiter at this stage. I have to spin up some additional limiter
plugins and add some gui functionality to make the limiters effective. The
simplest method will be to add a radio button to the limiter panel to
allow adjusting the output for each band.
ex.
[all] [low] [mid] [high]
[ limiter controls ]
This sounds much better then the previous version. I noticed the master
output level doesn't do anything too anymore, but that looks obvious to me.

This part works fine.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Depending on which item is selected affects each output channel. Not sure
about the simplest way to handle the multichannel output meters and volume
controls though.
Maybe under a new tabs something like a number of boxes equal to the
number of bands (just like the compressor tab), and in each box a level
control, limiter control and level meters. And below that a slider with
crossover frequencies. That must be a new band splitter independent from
the one for the compressors.


|
Patrick Shirkey
2013-02-07 15:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michiel Broek
Hi Patrick,
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Hi,
I just committed a fix for the audio quality on the multichannel outputs.
If anyone wants to test this version that would be useful.
This basic functionality might actually be useful for some people now:-)
The output of the low/mid/high bands is sent through the compressor but
not the limiter at this stage. I have to spin up some additional limiter
plugins and add some gui functionality to make the limiters effective. The
simplest method will be to add a radio button to the limiter panel to
allow adjusting the output for each band.
ex.
[all] [low] [mid] [high]
[ limiter controls ]
This sounds much better then the previous version. I noticed the master
output level doesn't do anything too anymore, but that looks obvious to me.
I tested the master level just now. It is only hooked up to the master
ouputs atm. The band outputs don't have boost+limiter+volume control at
the moment.
Post by Michiel Broek
This part works fine.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Depending on which item is selected affects each output channel. Not sure
about the simplest way to handle the multichannel output meters and volume
controls though.
Maybe under a new tabs something like a number of boxes equal to the
number of bands (just like the compressor tab), and in each box a level
control, limiter control and level meters.
There are a few ways to handle this in the interface.

1: Radio buttons on the Limiter section

ex.

[all] [low] [mid] [high]

[ limiter controls ]


2: New scrollable tab in the upper tab panel

3: Tabbed controls for each compressor

4: Add the controls directly under the compressors by extending the height
of the interface.

5: New scrollable panel for the lower tab section with choice of 3 or 4.
Post by Michiel Broek
And below that a slider with
crossover frequencies. That must be a new band splitter independent from
the one for the compressors.
I'm not sure how this fits. Can you give a little more detail? What is the
purpose of a second xover?

Screen sizes have increased over the past few years. Should we increase
the default size of the main window to accomodate more controls?



--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Michiel Broek
2013-02-07 18:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Hi Patrick,
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Hi,
I just committed a fix for the audio quality on the multichannel outputs.
If anyone wants to test this version that would be useful.
This basic functionality might actually be useful for some people now:-)
The output of the low/mid/high bands is sent through the compressor but
not the limiter at this stage. I have to spin up some additional limiter
plugins and add some gui functionality to make the limiters effective. The
simplest method will be to add a radio button to the limiter panel to
allow adjusting the output for each band.
ex.
[all] [low] [mid] [high]
[ limiter controls ]
This sounds much better then the previous version. I noticed the master
output level doesn't do anything too anymore, but that looks obvious to me.
I tested the master level just now. It is only hooked up to the master
ouputs atm. The band outputs don't have boost+limiter+volume control at
the moment.
I have seen that.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
This part works fine.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Depending on which item is selected affects each output channel. Not sure
about the simplest way to handle the multichannel output meters and volume
controls though.
Maybe under a new tabs something like a number of boxes equal to the
number of bands (just like the compressor tab), and in each box a level
control, limiter control and level meters.
There are a few ways to handle this in the interface.
1: Radio buttons on the Limiter section
ex.
[all] [low] [mid] [high]
[ limiter controls ]
2: New scrollable tab in the upper tab panel
3: Tabbed controls for each compressor
4: Add the controls directly under the compressors by extending the height
of the interface.
That would be a bad idea, see below.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
5: New scrollable panel for the lower tab section with choice of 3 or 4.
Post by Michiel Broek
And below that a slider with
crossover frequencies. That must be a new band splitter independent from
the one for the compressors.
I'm not sure how this fits. Can you give a little more detail? What is the
purpose of a second xover?
The second xover and outputs/limiters/delay belong to driving an active
speaker system. The crossover frequencies are different then one would
need for a multiband compressor. It is even so that once the extra
outputs are calibrated for the active speaker systems it is driving, you
normally do not touch any settings anymore.

Different is the three compressors, the xover frequency choice is a
personal taste and also dependent on the music style. This is more an
art and taste part while the extra outputs is pure technical.

Eventually, if the extra outputs, xover limiters etc were in its' own
application, it would be a solution too and for live use you should
chain mixer -> original jamin -> xover/limiters app -> lwo mid and high
amplifiers and speakers.

That is the reason why I think it is logical to add a tab in Jamin where
all controls for the extra xover and output drivers can be placed. I
will try to make a diagram later this evening.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Screen sizes have increased over the past few years. Should we increase
the default size of the main window to accomodate more controls?
Yes and no, I think the format is fine. I would prefer Qt over gtk but
that's is just a personal choice. I would leave the size as it is, it is
now still useable on notebooks.

Does anyone know how to use the osc thing?

gtx, Michiel.
Patrick Shirkey
2013-02-07 19:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michiel Broek
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Hi Patrick,
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Hi,
I just committed a fix for the audio quality on the multichannel outputs.
If anyone wants to test this version that would be useful.
This basic functionality might actually be useful for some people now:-)
The output of the low/mid/high bands is sent through the compressor but
not the limiter at this stage. I have to spin up some additional limiter
plugins and add some gui functionality to make the limiters effective. The
simplest method will be to add a radio button to the limiter panel to
allow adjusting the output for each band.
ex.
[all] [low] [mid] [high]
[ limiter controls ]
This sounds much better then the previous version. I noticed the master
output level doesn't do anything too anymore, but that looks obvious to me.
I tested the master level just now. It is only hooked up to the master
ouputs atm. The band outputs don't have boost+limiter+volume control at
the moment.
I have seen that.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
This part works fine.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Depending on which item is selected affects each output channel. Not sure
about the simplest way to handle the multichannel output meters and volume
controls though.
Maybe under a new tabs something like a number of boxes equal to the
number of bands (just like the compressor tab), and in each box a level
control, limiter control and level meters.
There are a few ways to handle this in the interface.
1: Radio buttons on the Limiter section
ex.
[all] [low] [mid] [high]
[ limiter controls ]
2: New scrollable tab in the upper tab panel
3: Tabbed controls for each compressor
4: Add the controls directly under the compressors by extending the height
of the interface.
That would be a bad idea, see below.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
5: New scrollable panel for the lower tab section with choice of 3 or 4.
Post by Michiel Broek
And below that a slider with
crossover frequencies. That must be a new band splitter independent from
the one for the compressors.
I'm not sure how this fits. Can you give a little more detail? What is the
purpose of a second xover?
The second xover and outputs/limiters/delay belong to driving an active
speaker system. The crossover frequencies are different then one would
need for a multiband compressor. It is even so that once the extra
outputs are calibrated for the active speaker systems it is driving, you
normally do not touch any settings anymore.
The intention is to make the bypass on the compressors work too. At the
moment they are hardcoded because that was the easiest way to get a proof
of concept out the door.
Post by Michiel Broek
Different is the three compressors, the xover frequency choice is a
personal taste and also dependent on the music style. This is more an
art and taste part while the extra outputs is pure technical.
Eventually, if the extra outputs, xover limiters etc were in its' own
application, it would be a solution too and for live use you should
chain mixer -> original jamin -> xover/limiters app -> lwo mid and high
amplifiers and speakers.
If the compressors are bypassed do you need a seperate application?
Post by Michiel Broek
That is the reason why I think it is logical to add a tab in Jamin where
all controls for the extra xover and output drivers can be placed. I
will try to make a diagram later this evening.
We should try to keep the signal flow. leading the eye down the interface
and then back up again to the output controls is bad UI design.

How about a collapsable panel for the multi channel band outputs directly
under the compressor panel so we don't add extra space unless it is
explicitly requested? We could also make the compressors optional by
hiding the compressor panel.
Post by Michiel Broek
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Screen sizes have increased over the past few years. Should we increase
the default size of the main window to accomodate more controls?
Yes and no, I think the format is fine. I would prefer Qt over gtk but
that's is just a personal choice. I would leave the size as it is, it is
now still useable on notebooks.
Does anyone know how to use the osc thing?
There nothing specific to jamin online.

Looks like you need this osc-midi bridge:

http://controsc.sourceforge.net/

Dave Phillips has an interesting article here:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/introduction-osc

However what we really need is a step by step instruction manual for
jamin. If anyone wants to enlighten us how it is supposed to work that
would be handy.



--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Michiel Broek
2013-02-07 21:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Just the picture.
Michiel Broek
2013-02-07 21:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
This part works fine.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Depending on which item is selected affects each output channel. Not sure
about the simplest way to handle the multichannel output meters and volume
controls though.
Maybe under a new tabs something like a number of boxes equal to the
number of bands (just like the compressor tab), and in each box a level
control, limiter control and level meters.
There are a few ways to handle this in the interface.
1: Radio buttons on the Limiter section
ex.
[all] [low] [mid] [high]
[ limiter controls ]
2: New scrollable tab in the upper tab panel
3: Tabbed controls for each compressor
4: Add the controls directly under the compressors by extending the height
of the interface.
That would be a bad idea, see below.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
5: New scrollable panel for the lower tab section with choice of 3 or 4.
Post by Michiel Broek
And below that a slider with
crossover frequencies. That must be a new band splitter independent from
the one for the compressors.
I'm not sure how this fits. Can you give a little more detail? What is the
purpose of a second xover?
The second xover and outputs/limiters/delay belong to driving an active
speaker system. The crossover frequencies are different then one would
need for a multiband compressor. It is even so that once the extra
outputs are calibrated for the active speaker systems it is driving, you
normally do not touch any settings anymore.
The intention is to make the bypass on the compressors work too. At the
moment they are hardcoded because that was the easiest way to get a proof
of concept out the door.
Ok.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Different is the three compressors, the xover frequency choice is a
personal taste and also dependent on the music style. This is more an
art and taste part while the extra outputs is pure technical.
Eventually, if the extra outputs, xover limiters etc were in its' own
application, it would be a solution too and for live use you should
chain mixer -> original jamin -> xover/limiters app -> lwo mid and high
amplifiers and speakers.
If the compressors are bypassed do you need a seperate application?
Not really. I attached a drawing based on the original drawing on the
website. The bottom part on the drawing makes me think that the original
limiter and output level is now duplicated in the new channels.

First some ideas on the extra output channels and how DBX uses them

If there are more that two bands, the lower band is driven by the
crossover using as a bandfilter. Only the highest output uses a shelf
filter. What they do in single band mode is to use only the high output
and put the shelf frequency probably at 10 Hz.

I think this is a good idea to make the system flexible, in single band
mode it is classic Jamin. To make it a two band system, the crossover is
something like 800 Hz, so the high channel is 800 upto whatever is
possible,, and the low channel 10 up to 800 Hz.

That system with its' crossover is being fed by the boost stage. (In my
drawing the original level and limiter is still in place.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
That is the reason why I think it is logical to add a tab in Jamin where
all controls for the extra xover and output drivers can be placed. I
will try to make a diagram later this evening.
We should try to keep the signal flow. leading the eye down the interface
and then back up again to the output controls is bad UI design.
How about a collapsable panel for the multi channel band outputs directly
under the compressor panel so we don't add extra space unless it is
explicitly requested? We could also make the compressors optional by
hiding the compressor panel.
I agree that the screen should represent the signal flow, it should be
logical.

To make the best use of the available space there are some thing that I
find important. When I use Jamin I allways want to see the several level
meters in the compressors, the spectrum and so on so that you can see
what the signals are doing. It may be possible to show everything in one
view if you use popup's or some other idea to bring up the controls of a
part in the system. For example I don't need all the compressor controls
at the same time if I'm only adjusting the Low compressor. Only popup
the sliders when needed save a lot of space.

It may even be safer that the controls need to be activated to adjust
them. You call it a collapse panel, I don't know exactly what you mean
by that but it looks to me that for the user it has the same result.

It depends on what is possible to do, Jan is the expert on this subject.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
There nothing specific to jamin online.
http://controsc.sourceforge.net/
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/introduction-osc
However what we really need is a step by step instruction manual for
jamin. If anyone wants to enlighten us how it is supposed to work that
would be handy.
Thanks for the links, it is much clearer now.

gtx, Michiel.

Michiel Broek
2013-02-07 21:26:31 UTC
Permalink
Just trying it again without the picture


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Jamin] CVS commit : 0.98.1
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 22:20:44 +0100
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
This part works fine.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Depending on which item is selected affects each output channel. Not
sure
about the simplest way to handle the multichannel output meters and
volume
controls though.
Maybe under a new tabs something like a number of boxes equal to the
number of bands (just like the compressor tab), and in each box a level
control, limiter control and level meters.
There are a few ways to handle this in the interface.
1: Radio buttons on the Limiter section
ex.
[all] [low] [mid] [high]
[ limiter controls ]
2: New scrollable tab in the upper tab panel
3: Tabbed controls for each compressor
4: Add the controls directly under the compressors by extending the
height
of the interface.
That would be a bad idea, see below.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
5: New scrollable panel for the lower tab section with choice of 3 or 4.
Post by Michiel Broek
And below that a slider with
crossover frequencies. That must be a new band splitter independent
from
the one for the compressors.
I'm not sure how this fits. Can you give a little more detail? What is
the
purpose of a second xover?
The second xover and outputs/limiters/delay belong to driving an active
speaker system. The crossover frequencies are different then one would
need for a multiband compressor. It is even so that once the extra
outputs are calibrated for the active speaker systems it is driving, you
normally do not touch any settings anymore.
The intention is to make the bypass on the compressors work too. At the
moment they are hardcoded because that was the easiest way to get a proof
of concept out the door.
Ok.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Different is the three compressors, the xover frequency choice is a
personal taste and also dependent on the music style. This is more an
art and taste part while the extra outputs is pure technical.
Eventually, if the extra outputs, xover limiters etc were in its' own
application, it would be a solution too and for live use you should
chain mixer -> original jamin -> xover/limiters app -> lwo mid and high
amplifiers and speakers.
If the compressors are bypassed do you need a seperate application?
Not really. I attached a drawing based on the original drawing on the
website. The bottom part on the drawing makes me think that the original
limiter and output level is now duplicated in the new channels.

First some ideas on the extra output channels and how DBX uses them

If there are more that two bands, the lower band is driven by the
crossover using as a bandfilter. Only the highest output uses a shelf
filter. What they do in single band mode is to use only the high output
and put the shelf frequency probably at 10 Hz.

I think this is a good idea to make the system flexible, in single band
mode it is classic Jamin. To make it a two band system, the crossover is
something like 800 Hz, so the high channel is 800 upto whatever is
possible,, and the low channel 10 up to 800 Hz.

That system with its' crossover is being fed by the boost stage. (In my
drawing the original level and limiter is still in place.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
That is the reason why I think it is logical to add a tab in Jamin where
all controls for the extra xover and output drivers can be placed. I
will try to make a diagram later this evening.
We should try to keep the signal flow. leading the eye down the interface
and then back up again to the output controls is bad UI design.
How about a collapsable panel for the multi channel band outputs directly
under the compressor panel so we don't add extra space unless it is
explicitly requested? We could also make the compressors optional by
hiding the compressor panel.
I agree that the screen should represent the signal flow, it should be
logical.

To make the best use of the available space there are some thing that I
find important. When I use Jamin I allways want to see the several level
meters in the compressors, the spectrum and so on so that you can see
what the signals are doing. It may be possible to show everything in one
view if you use popup's or some other idea to bring up the controls of a
part in the system. For example I don't need all the compressor controls
at the same time if I'm only adjusting the Low compressor. Only popup
the sliders when needed save a lot of space.

It may even be safer that the controls need to be activated to adjust
them. You call it a collapse panel, I don't know exactly what you mean
by that but it looks to me that for the user it has the same result.

It depends on what is possible to do, Jan is the expert on this subject.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
There nothing specific to jamin online.
http://controsc.sourceforge.net/
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/introduction-osc
However what we really need is a step by step instruction manual for
jamin. If anyone wants to enlighten us how it is supposed to work that
would be handy.
Thanks for the links, it is much clearer now.

gtx, Michiel.
Patrick Shirkey
2013-02-07 21:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michiel Broek
Just trying it again without the picture
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Jamin] CVS commit : 0.98.1
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 22:20:44 +0100
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
This part works fine.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Depending on which item is selected affects each output channel. Not
sure
about the simplest way to handle the multichannel output meters and
volume
controls though.
Maybe under a new tabs something like a number of boxes equal to the
number of bands (just like the compressor tab), and in each box a level
control, limiter control and level meters.
There are a few ways to handle this in the interface.
1: Radio buttons on the Limiter section
ex.
[all] [low] [mid] [high]
[ limiter controls ]
2: New scrollable tab in the upper tab panel
3: Tabbed controls for each compressor
4: Add the controls directly under the compressors by extending the
height
of the interface.
That would be a bad idea, see below.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
5: New scrollable panel for the lower tab section with choice of 3 or 4.
Post by Michiel Broek
And below that a slider with
crossover frequencies. That must be a new band splitter independent
from
the one for the compressors.
I'm not sure how this fits. Can you give a little more detail? What is
the
purpose of a second xover?
The second xover and outputs/limiters/delay belong to driving an active
speaker system. The crossover frequencies are different then one would
need for a multiband compressor. It is even so that once the extra
outputs are calibrated for the active speaker systems it is driving, you
normally do not touch any settings anymore.
The intention is to make the bypass on the compressors work too. At the
moment they are hardcoded because that was the easiest way to get a proof
of concept out the door.
Ok.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Different is the three compressors, the xover frequency choice is a
personal taste and also dependent on the music style. This is more an
art and taste part while the extra outputs is pure technical.
Eventually, if the extra outputs, xover limiters etc were in its' own
application, it would be a solution too and for live use you should
chain mixer -> original jamin -> xover/limiters app -> lwo mid and high
amplifiers and speakers.
If the compressors are bypassed do you need a seperate application?
Not really. I attached a drawing based on the original drawing on the
website. The bottom part on the drawing makes me think that the original
limiter and output level is now duplicated in the new channels.
First some ideas on the extra output channels and how DBX uses them
So effectively we are talking about a whole new section for the
multichannel output that comes after the signal has been processed for
stereo output.

That means pluggin a new xover into the final stage stereo output signal
and splitting it by as many channels as the user requires.
Post by Michiel Broek
If there are more that two bands, the lower band is driven by the
crossover using as a bandfilter. Only the highest output uses a shelf
filter. What they do in single band mode is to use only the high output
and put the shelf frequency probably at 10 Hz.
I think this is a good idea to make the system flexible, in single band
mode it is classic Jamin. To make it a two band system, the crossover is
something like 800 Hz, so the high channel is 800 upto whatever is
possible,, and the low channel 10 up to 800 Hz.
That system with its' crossover is being fed by the boost stage. (In my
drawing the original level and limiter is still in place.
For the multichannel option do we need the boost+limiter on the stereo
signal before the secondary xover? I'm not going to take it out but it
might not be good to have too many boost+limiters int he mix. Probably it
should be disabled by default.
Post by Michiel Broek
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
That is the reason why I think it is logical to add a tab in Jamin where
all controls for the extra xover and output drivers can be placed. I
will try to make a diagram later this evening.
We should try to keep the signal flow. leading the eye down the interface
and then back up again to the output controls is bad UI design.
How about a collapsable panel for the multi channel band outputs directly
under the compressor panel so we don't add extra space unless it is
explicitly requested? We could also make the compressors optional by
hiding the compressor panel.
I agree that the screen should represent the signal flow, it should be
logical.
To make the best use of the available space there are some thing that I
find important. When I use Jamin I allways want to see the several level
meters in the compressors, the spectrum and so on so that you can see
what the signals are doing. It may be possible to show everything in one
view if you use popup's or some other idea to bring up the controls of a
part in the system. For example I don't need all the compressor controls
at the same time if I'm only adjusting the Low compressor. Only popup
the sliders when needed save a lot of space.
It would be nice to view the multiband and the compressor scales at the
same time. We could move the compressor scales to the compressor section
and add a tabbed view either per compressor or as a group.
Post by Michiel Broek
It may even be safer that the controls need to be activated to adjust
them. You call it a collapse panel, I don't know exactly what you mean
by that but it looks to me that for the user it has the same result.
Basically the panel is not visible unless required. When required it will
extend the size of the window or replace an existing section. It's similar
to tabs but has a slightly different visual action in the display
procedure.

Basically we can have a button either in the toolbar or under the master
output that enables the multichannel section of the interface.


--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Michiel Broek
2013-02-07 22:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Just trying it again without the picture
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Jamin] CVS commit : 0.98.1
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 22:20:44 +0100
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
This part works fine.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Depending on which item is selected affects each output channel. Not
sure
about the simplest way to handle the multichannel output meters and
volume
controls though.
Maybe under a new tabs something like a number of boxes equal to the
number of bands (just like the compressor tab), and in each box a level
control, limiter control and level meters.
There are a few ways to handle this in the interface.
1: Radio buttons on the Limiter section
ex.
[all] [low] [mid] [high]
[ limiter controls ]
2: New scrollable tab in the upper tab panel
3: Tabbed controls for each compressor
4: Add the controls directly under the compressors by extending the
height
of the interface.
That would be a bad idea, see below.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
5: New scrollable panel for the lower tab section with choice of 3 or 4.
Post by Michiel Broek
And below that a slider with
crossover frequencies. That must be a new band splitter independent
from
the one for the compressors.
I'm not sure how this fits. Can you give a little more detail? What is
the
purpose of a second xover?
The second xover and outputs/limiters/delay belong to driving an active
speaker system. The crossover frequencies are different then one would
need for a multiband compressor. It is even so that once the extra
outputs are calibrated for the active speaker systems it is driving, you
normally do not touch any settings anymore.
The intention is to make the bypass on the compressors work too. At the
moment they are hardcoded because that was the easiest way to get a proof
of concept out the door.
Ok.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Different is the three compressors, the xover frequency choice is a
personal taste and also dependent on the music style. This is more an
art and taste part while the extra outputs is pure technical.
Eventually, if the extra outputs, xover limiters etc were in its' own
application, it would be a solution too and for live use you should
chain mixer -> original jamin -> xover/limiters app -> lwo mid and high
amplifiers and speakers.
If the compressors are bypassed do you need a seperate application?
Not really. I attached a drawing based on the original drawing on the
website. The bottom part on the drawing makes me think that the original
limiter and output level is now duplicated in the new channels.
First some ideas on the extra output channels and how DBX uses them
So effectively we are talking about a whole new section for the
multichannel output that comes after the signal has been processed for
stereo output.
That means pluggin a new xover into the final stage stereo output signal
and splitting it by as many channels as the user requires.
That's correct.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
If there are more that two bands, the lower band is driven by the
crossover using as a bandfilter. Only the highest output uses a shelf
filter. What they do in single band mode is to use only the high output
and put the shelf frequency probably at 10 Hz.
I think this is a good idea to make the system flexible, in single band
mode it is classic Jamin. To make it a two band system, the crossover is
something like 800 Hz, so the high channel is 800 upto whatever is
possible,, and the low channel 10 up to 800 Hz.
That system with its' crossover is being fed by the boost stage. (In my
drawing the original level and limiter is still in place.
For the multichannel option do we need the boost+limiter on the stereo
signal before the secondary xover? I'm not going to take it out but it
might not be good to have too many boost+limiters int he mix. Probably it
should be disabled by default.
We don't need that, that's the reason why I did draw a bypass for that
section.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
That is the reason why I think it is logical to add a tab in Jamin where
all controls for the extra xover and output drivers can be placed. I
will try to make a diagram later this evening.
We should try to keep the signal flow. leading the eye down the interface
and then back up again to the output controls is bad UI design.
How about a collapsable panel for the multi channel band outputs directly
under the compressor panel so we don't add extra space unless it is
explicitly requested? We could also make the compressors optional by
hiding the compressor panel.
I agree that the screen should represent the signal flow, it should be
logical.
To make the best use of the available space there are some thing that I
find important. When I use Jamin I allways want to see the several level
meters in the compressors, the spectrum and so on so that you can see
what the signals are doing. It may be possible to show everything in one
view if you use popup's or some other idea to bring up the controls of a
part in the system. For example I don't need all the compressor controls
at the same time if I'm only adjusting the Low compressor. Only popup
the sliders when needed save a lot of space.
It would be nice to view the multiband and the compressor scales at the
same time. We could move the compressor scales to the compressor section
and add a tabbed view either per compressor or as a group.
I think a tabbed view per compressor is fine.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Post by Michiel Broek
It may even be safer that the controls need to be activated to adjust
them. You call it a collapse panel, I don't know exactly what you mean
by that but it looks to me that for the user it has the same result.
Basically the panel is not visible unless required. When required it will
extend the size of the window or replace an existing section. It's similar
to tabs but has a slightly different visual action in the display
procedure.
I thought it should be something like that. That should work good for
the user.
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Basically we can have a button either in the toolbar or under the master
output that enables the multichannel section of the interface.
I would prefer it in the toolbar, in the preferences panel.

gtx, Michiel
Post by Patrick Shirkey
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
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Udo van den Heuvel
2013-02-08 11:29:04 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

Can I use the recently added features to process M-S decoded signals,
and perhaps even left/Right signals separately and combine 3 or so of
them together?
I understand the splitting happens outside of Jamin but the processing
of the channels of course is within Jamin.

Kind regards,
Udo
Patrick Shirkey
2013-02-08 13:31:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Udo van den Heuvel
Hello,
Can I use the recently added features to process M-S decoded signals,
and perhaps even left/Right signals separately and combine 3 or so of
them together?
I understand the splitting happens outside of Jamin but the processing
of the channels of course is within Jamin.
Maybe the signal path should be explained again.


1: stereo input
2: multichannel EQ
3: xover (3 band)
4: compressors (low/mid/high)
4a: multichannel output to jack
5: combine 3 bands to stereo
6: boost
7: limiter
8: master stereo output



Does that give you a better idea?
Post by Udo van den Heuvel
Kind regards,
Udo
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Patrick Shirkey
2013-02-08 15:27:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Maybe the signal path should be explained again.
[...]
Post by Patrick Shirkey
Does that give you a better idea?
Yes, thanks!
So the stereo input is a limit here.
How many inputs do you need for this use case?

Adding more inputs is not a technical issue. We just have to work out how
to handle them through the signal pathway.




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Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
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